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PostPosted: 2014/05/09, 11:28 
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Hey everyone,

right now, most developers have never heard of Duality - which is kind of a waste, I think. So I've been spreading the word about Duality in a lot of places throughout the internet - but I'm just one guy, and who listens to a single voice when there are hundreds of others? That's why I've made a list of websites where you can upvote, review or comment on Duality.

Duality represented on:


Let's see if we can't gain a little more weight in the discussion.

Edit: One more thing. Whenever you post or share a link to Duality, please use one of my subdomains instead of the direct links. In case I'm moving the project at some point in the future, I can easily redirect the subdomains, but all direct links will be broken. Here are all the ones I'm currently maintaining:


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PostPosted: 2014/05/12, 21:44 
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I'm doing my part in word-to-mouth advertisement, that's for sure :).
I've hooked several people in, I think!


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PostPosted: 2014/07/12, 07:40 
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I like the concept of Duality but I don't think it will gain a lot of traction until the following:

  • A showcase of good games made with it.
  • A more professional website theme (unfortunately, people judge books by their covers).
  • Tutorials need to be more prominently displayed + easier to find.
  • Documentation should be continuously expanded.

Until these points are addressed, a lot of incoming visitors will bounce away. The engine itself has a lot of merits, but that's not enough for widespread adoption unfortunately. At this point, advertising could even be counter-productive?

EDIT: As silly as it sounds, the anti-bot question on registration might be a bit tough. Took me a while to find a valid answer. Most potential users will probably deem it annoying and just close the page, thus never joining the forums when they might've otherwise. Something to think about.


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PostPosted: 2014/07/12, 12:27 
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Aegar wrote:
I like the concept of Duality but I don't think it will gain a lot of traction until the following:

  • A showcase of good games made with it.
  • A more professional website theme (unfortunately, people judge books by their covers).
  • Tutorials need to be more prominently displayed + easier to find.
  • Documentation should be continuously expanded.

Until these points are addressed, a lot of incoming visitors will bounce away. The engine itself has a lot of merits, but that's not enough for widespread adoption unfortunately. At this point, advertising could even be counter-productive?


All of the above points would help, but they don't appear out of thin air. Some of them need an active user base, some of them need an extensive amount of time, which is the one thing that I am most limited by. I need to set priorities in order to pull off a project like Duality, and the actual development as well as technical support score way higher on my personal priority scale than reworking the website or writing more tutorials.

Don't get me wrong - you are absolutely right! But I can't do all of it at once, and for now, my goal is to further improve the product itself and help the ones who are already using it, instead of launching a PR campaign. I really need to be time / benefit efficient here and keep an eye on what's important.

So yeah - these issues need to be addressed. I will take care of at least the second to the last of your points, as soon as I get around to it without sacrificing development and support. Maybe I could even squeeze in some website polishing inbetween my other tasks. The awesome games showcase, well.. that might take a while. But maybe some community effort could help with that one as well ;)

Edit: I have filed a GitHub issue regarding the website topic, in case you want to keep track or add some remarks.

Aegar wrote:
EDIT: As silly as it sounds, the anti-bot question on registration might be a bit tough. Took me a while to find a valid answer. Most potential users will probably deem it annoying and just close the page, thus never joining the forums when they might've otherwise. Something to think about.


Getting this board bot-free hasn't been easy and involved multiple spambot countermeasures, some of them visible and some invisible. I've recently tried deactivating the visible ones, only to have to delete a lot of bot accounts again, so as long as there isn't something better, the anti-bot questions will stay in place. It's annoying, yes, but I don't have a better alternative yet. :S

Edit: I have added some hints to the existing questions and added some others where the answer is more or less part of the question. Maybe this helps a little :)

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PostPosted: 2014/07/12, 16:56 
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I appreciate the fast response. That kind of community involvement will be good for influencing future users to stick around.

And you're right. I didn't mean to place all of the burden on you, which would be unreasonable. It's kind of a catch-22 because I don't think advertising is the best course of action right now, yet you DO need a more active community to become more attractive for advertising. Tough stuff.

Speaking for myself, I just want to make a game. I can see that Duality might be awesome to use, but I have no idea where to start, which makes me want to "wait and see" before I commit myself to it. I'm more of the type to learn from tutorials and examples than digging through source and experimenting (my time is too limited for that). I have a feeling I'm not alone in that.

So I think that should be top priority. Building up a prominently-displayed knowledgebase of tutorials and demos that can get newbies up and running through a series of gradually more advanced examples (the Breakout one is good, but more would be better).

The engine concept itself is GREAT though.

On an unrelated note, what would you recommend for multiplayer networking? I don't have an extensive background in C# so I don't know what options are available.


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PostPosted: 2014/07/12, 17:50 
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Aegar wrote:
It's kind of a catch-22 because I don't think advertising is the best course of action right now, yet you DO need a more active community to become more attractive for advertising. Tough stuff.


Yeah, I guess that's how it always starts when you begin a project and don't have a fancy company name behind you. It's not easy to get out of that, but I'm hoping that Duality is on a good path.

Aegar wrote:
Speaking for myself, I just want to make a game. I can see that Duality might be awesome to use, but I have no idea where to start, which makes me want to "wait and see" before I commit myself to it. I'm more of the type to learn from tutorials and examples than digging through source and experimenting (my time is too limited for that). I have a feeling I'm not alone in that.

So I think that should be top priority. Building up a prominently-displayed knowledgebase of tutorials and demos that can get newbies up and running through a series of gradually more advanced examples (the Breakout one is good, but more would be better).


I agree that such a knowledgebase would be great in lowering the entry barrier for newbies. On a side node, you do know that there's a Getting Started tutorial? It's admittedly very basic, but I guess this has been the starting point for most users so far.

If you were not aware of it, then it definitely needs to be displayed more prominently.

Aegar wrote:
On an unrelated note, what would you recommend for multiplayer networking? I don't have an extensive background in C# so I don't know what options are available.


Although I do have a C# background, this is unfortunately not true for networking code and multiplayer stuff, so.. no idea. Sorry. :D

I'd bet there is some kind of library around, out there somewhere. If this is true, then you should be able to pull it into your project by simply adding it as reference to your game plugin in Duality. Alternatively, you could create a distinct general-purpose multiplayer plugin, so others are able to use what you've created easily.

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PostPosted: 2014/07/15, 11:32 
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I have updated my initial post with some information on link sharing. Please don't share direct links. Use subdomain URLs instead (see above).

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PostPosted: 2014/07/20, 14:56 
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The first step in making Duality more appealing to the average developer is done: I have scrapped the old info page and created a new, shiny one. It's now hosted on GitHub and all of the old URLs redirect there.

It took a while to get into HTML and CSS once again, but I think it was worth it. As always, feedback is appreciated :)

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PostPosted: 2014/07/22, 16:46 
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Holy moly. I just saw the website update announcement on Reddit and I'm impressed. It now feels like Duality is a "real" project.

I'm currently toying around with a mini-project in Haxe but I should be done with it some time this week. I think I'll give Duality a shot afterwards!

EDIT: One suggestion. Perhaps you could add a page to the wiki tutorial section with a collection of off-site tutorials? Such as the breakout clone on the forums and any other Duality guides out on the web?


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PostPosted: 2014/07/22, 21:49 
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Aegar wrote:
Holy moly. I just saw the website update announcement on Reddit and I'm impressed. It now feels like Duality is a "real" project.


Thanks! :) That's certainly the effect I aimed for with the new page and it's great to hear it actually paid off.

Aegar wrote:
I'm currently toying around with a mini-project in Haxe but I should be done with it some time this week. I think I'll give Duality a shot afterwards!

EDIT: One suggestion. Perhaps you could add a page to the wiki tutorial section with a collection of off-site tutorials? Such as the breakout clone on the forums and any other Duality guides out on the web?


Sounds great! Looking forward to see whatever your venture produces, in case you decide to share it.

As for your suggestion, I have added a more specific link to the Tutorial section of this forum to the "What Next" chapter of the Getting Started tutorial. Hopefully, new users will be redirected there as soon as they finish their first tutorial.

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